What If Being Black No Longer Meant Living in a White Supremacist World?

That's one of many questions posed during what was billed as "A historic dialogue between the Revolutionary Christian Cornel West and the Revolutionary Communist Leader Bob Avakian."

Huge Turnout for a Talk Punctuated by Events in Ferguson

Apparently, the prospect of some answers to such questions led people to come out en masse -- creating lines that wrapped around the three corners of The Riverside Church, in Manhattan, on a clear and crisp Saturday, November 15, 2014. They came, filling the Church to capacity – an estimated 1,500 or so -- to hear and see the two men, who would spend over three hours talking about "Revolution and Religion: The Fight for Emancipation and the Role of Religion." Before the "dialogue" started, however, the audience discovered that each man would first speak individually.

Line wrapped around Riverside Church awaiting to get in to hear the dialogue between Dr. Cornel West and Bob Avakian. Photo Credit: RevCom

Avakian's First Framing Questions

Bob Avakian didn't waste any time before honing in, finding much to dispute in the Bible and with Jesus, Black Liberation Theology, and what he called "the negative example" of the fight for liberation, namely the Jews and their fight for the State of Israel.

He said, "Revenge may seem sweet, but we need to move to a world that's not like that."

Oppression by any group or individual against another is not the world of change.

According to this self-proclaimed Revolutionary Communist, "If people can't change, nothing can change. But, people can and do change." He then asks, "What if being black no longer meant living in a white supremacist world? What if we didn't have to live in a lop-sided world?"

Avakian notes that just as The Beatles' John Lennon sang, "You may say I'm a dreamer," he believes a just world can be a reality. "We need a scientific method and an approach to make this world a reality....To change the system."

Avakian's Other Questions

How to change the system? "We need a revolution." The good news according to Avakian: Our current system is "the basis for revolution." He reminds us that "nobody had heard of Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin..." Interrupting him, several people in the audience began to shout, calling out other names of black and brown men who were killed by police. Several of those sitting in the front pews came from Ferguson, MO, and they among many others stood up, with arms raised, fists clenched, chanting "Hands up. Don't Shoot."

Audience members with clenched fists and hands in the air, reciting names of black men killed by police and reciting "Hands up, Don't shoot." Photo Credit: Revcom

A year ago, Avakian continued, we didn't know about the children coming from Central America. "This is a system that forces people to rise up against it."

What gives Life meaning? Of all the questions, this one may well be Avakian's core question. He urges us to recognize that we must not justify or accept, for example, that Thomas Jefferson owned and enslaved people because he was living in a society which at that time condoned slavery. Instead he reminds us that "plenty of people knew slavery was wrong and protested it. People see what's possible and take a stand." Avakian urges the same approach with the impending indictment of the Ferguson police officer. Saying he's aware that Ferguson churches are organizing prayer meetings, but that "If you're going to pray, pray that a lot of people are out on the street. Pray that we're not going to take it. Police are putting the lives of our youth on the line every day. They are murdering them every day."

Dr. Cornel West's Questions

More than two hours later, it is Cornel West's turn to speak. He talks for about 20 minutes. And, just as Avakian cut to the chase on how he stands against religion and for the scientific method, based on evidence, not faith; West swiftly voices his own stance on religion saying: "I think he's wrong about Jesus. I believe in the cross" borne against the Roman Empire. To acknowledge their fight against injustice in the American Empire, West calls out to actor and longtime activist Harry Belafonte, who is seated in the front pews, as well as Juanita Young, mother of Malcolm Ferguson – who was killed by NYPD in 2000 –and a champion against police brutality, and Carl Dix, among others. Ms. Young and Mr. Dix are members of the Dialogue's Host Committee,* along with 33 other members, including Emmy award-winning actor Ed Asner; Dr. Farah Jasmine Griffin, Columbia University professor, English and African American Studies; Dr. Obery Hendricks, Columbia University Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religion & IRAAS; and Rev. Stephen Phelps, former Interim Minister The Riverside Church.

West then directs the filled-to-capacity gathering to consider the following four questions:

• How does integrity face oppression?
• What does honesty do in the face of deception?
• What does decency do in the face of insult?
• What does virtue do in the face of brute force?

His brief speech reveals that the answer to each of the four questions he posed is the same, a "profound commitment of radical love, for everyday people, for the wretched of the Earth." He notes that "historically, black rage has been the threat to this system"; and predicts that "when black people wake up, everybody will!"

The program then concluded with questions the audience wrote on index cards, which Annie Day, the moderator, directed to Bob Avakian and Cornel West. The program was presented by Revolution Books and The Bob Avakian Institute. For more information, visit www.revcom.us.

*Footnote: "The members of the Host Committee have diverse political and philosophical viewpoints, yet agree that Cornel West and Bob Avakian dialoguing on this topic at this moment will matter and the people throughout society need to know about it." From the Program Bulletin, A Dialogue Between CornelWest and Bob Avakian, Revolution and Religion, 11/15/14

Luvon Roberson is happiest when she's reading a book or talking about one. She gets to do both as What's The 411 Book Editor. The daughter of a single mom who worked the night shift, she and her sister were "latch-key" kids. She spent hours reading on her bed and writing stories and poems. And, so began her lifelong love of books and storytelling. What's The 411 marks Luvon's return to TV, after a much earlier stint at WTNH-TV as a field producer/researcher, which she nabbed by beating out 50 others for the job.

She then teamed up with now-writer Ifa Iyaun (whose sister is Ntozake Shange) to develop The Book Team Folklore Project for the New Haven Board of Education. From there, she headed to the University of London, for her first Master's degree, returning to the US two years later to begin Ph.D. studies in the anthropology department at Columbia University. Zora Neale Hurston, her favorite novelist-folklorist-anthropologist, studied in the same department. Leaving Columbia with her second Master's, she moved to a focus on books and writing: She was an Associate Editor at NASW Publications, taught English literature to gifted students of color in the acclaimed Prep for Prep program, and taught Journal Writing to adult students at The College of New Rochelle. Then she began a long career in public relations, ranging from NYC's iconic Howard J. Rubenstein agency to global giant Omnicom, where she was a Senior Vice President at Fleishman-Hillard.

Among her recent adventures with books and writing, Luvon lists: Columnist, features writer, copy editor at Harlem News; book reviewer at ThoughtGallery.org; facilitator of book talks, literary-Biblical classes, and coordinator of large-scale book events for hundreds at The Riverside Church. Luvon is especially grateful to Gloria Steinem and NYC First Lady Chirlane McCray for using their skills as writers and their national and global visibility to showcase a new book, Breaking Through: 2014 Anthology from the Next Generation of Woman Writers. Luvon is the copy editor of Breaking Through and volunteers with Girls Write Now.

She calls herself "bookish," and reads at least one book each week. She's currently reading three books – Harlem Nocturne, by Farah Jasmine Griffin; My Secret History, by Paul Theroux; and – for the fourth time -- Moses, Man of the Mountain, by Zora Neale Hurston. Luvon belongs to three book clubs. And, she will accept all invitations to visit your book club! She wants to know what you're reading...What's The 411 on your bookshelf, Nook, or Kindle?

What happens when you eat from the Tree of Life and gain immortality?

Well, God gets very, very angry with you!

And, that's just the beginning of the battle between God and the Edenites in a new book, THE LAST KING, by first-time novelist, A. Yamina Collins.

WATCH VIDEO: Interview with THE LAST KING author, A. Yamina Collins

Caught between God and the Edenites is Emmy, a 6-foot tall African American woman and unsuspecting mortal, living in -- of all places -- Lake George, New York. Then, there's Gilead, an Edenite --standing 6'7' and gorgeous by anyone's definition. He's a doctor, lives in a mansion, plays polo, and has a panther as a pet. Another thing: he's lived for at least three centuries. And, his brother Markus is white. The two men, however, happen to share the same height and profession. Well, sort of.

Emmy, Gilead, and Markus – along with a few dozen other characters – make up the world created by author A. Yamina Collins.

Yamina Collins recently stopped by What's The 411's studio home, BRIC Arts Media House, to chat with me about her new sci-fi romance novel, THE LAST KING, an e-book, being released in monthly episodes/volumes. Ms. Collins not only imagines a uniquely populated world in upstate New York of unaware mortals co-existing with exotic animals and sword-wielding immortals who ride in chariots, but she also has imagined who these characters might be – if they came to life in our world -- in the "real" world.

She shared with me that she imagines "Emmy" as Lupita Nyong'o, the Academy Award-winning actress who starred in 12 Years a Slave. Instead of Ms. Nyong'o's signature close-crop natural, as "Emmy," the actress sports jazz musician and vocalist Esperanza Spalding's trademark looser-curl natural.

"Gilead" in her view might be played by two-time Academy Award-winner, actor, producer, and director Denzel Washington, but about 30 years ago, when he starred in the TV hit drama St. Elsewhere (1982-1988).

"Markus," the brother of "Gilead," could be Chris Hemsworth, the Australian actor we cheered for in blockbuster movies like Thor and The Avengers.

SPOILER ALERT: Ms. Collins also let me know that she will introduce many other characters in upcoming episodes of THE LAST KING, and that, in addition to Markus, Gilead has 19 other family members! She reveals a few other spoilers in our interview. So, LAST KING fans, watch and listen!

THE LAST KING is in top-100 Amazon best-sellers list in Fantasy, Sci Fi, Women's Fiction Literature, and Christian Women's Literature. More than 15,000 monthly visitors stop by Yamina's blog, yaminatoday.com, to check in on the latest episode/volume of THE LAST KING. You can also find her on Twitter @yaminatoday.

A graduate of New York University, Ms. Collins resides in New York City and is the author of THE BLUEBERRY MILLER FILES, a quirky collection of short stories.

P.S. After the interview, Ms. Collins and I, along with What's The 411 producer, Ruth J. Morrison, celebrated the author's 8/23 birthday. Reaching in the large birthday bag, filled with objects based on themes in THE LAST KING, Ms. Collins immediately placed the fur-trimmed sparkling pink tiara on her head. She then pulled out the plastic sword, brandishing it in true swashbuckling style. I think Emmy and Gilead would've been proud!

From Left to Right: A. Yamina Collins, Author, THE LAST KING; Ruth J. Morrison, CEO, What's The 411 Networks; Luvon Roberson, Book Editor, What's The 411